Should Men Learn About the Cycle? with Brendan Nordahl
An intimate chat with my husband about cycle awareness in a conscious relationship.
This week, my husband & I poured some whiskey and gathered around the microphone to share our thoughts about practicing cycle awareness in a conscious relationship.
Inspiration for this episode was derived from: Should Men Learn About the Cycle?
00:00 - Let’s pour some whiskey 🥃
Mary: I'm sure most couples don't really picture themselves sitting around a microphone drinking whiskey, talking about something like this, but here we are.
Brendan: But if you're gonna do it…
Mary: Do it right.
Brendan: This isn't a bad way to do it. Open a bottle of whiskey, and just get into it.
Mary: Just to be transparent, the language that we're going to be using on this podcast will be primarily male and female. I am sensitive to those who prefer other terminology, but we just can only really speak on our own experience. I also don't want to negate how sensitive of a topic this is around pregnancy, miscarriage, wanting to be pregnant, fertility issues. Yeah, I just felt like I wanted to say that.
00:50 - What happens in a relationship when the cycle isn’t discussed between partners
Mary: You know, half the population is in the dark as to what it's actually like to live with a menstrual cycle.So it almost gives this impression that men don't really need to understand it or know it because, well, that's not my problem. I don't have to deal with that. So why should I really understand it? Why should I learn about it?
Brendan: But the real question is why not? When you're growing up as an adolescent male and even a young adult male, just has this stigma around it of, you don't really know what's going on there. The only thing that you're really informed about or told is that she's gonna be crazy. Then you get married and that's married or dating, that's not the right like view to have.
Mary: Whoa, that's a really good point you bring up because I feel like then what that does is it puts this like weight on women to either prove you wrong OR live out this image that's been created for us that's already been planted in your head by, you know, hearsay from a brother or from an uncle or a grandfather, whoever that was just like, oh, watch out for women on their period, right?
Mary: And then you get into marriage and there's the stories that women have been told, which is a whole other conversation. Obviously that's what my whole freaking podcast is about.
Mary: But women basically have two choices, either live up to that image because it's kind of subconsciously reinforced through our actions and our thoughts and beliefs, or we prove it wrong and we do what we're doing, what you and I are doing right now, and we talk about it, learn about it, break the stigma & bring awareness so that we can recreate a relationship with a cycle and actually make it a positive, supportive thing in a partnership… whether you're dating, engaged, or married.
Brendan: Right, or you try and like hide it and sweep it under the rug and that just bottles things up and you cause more problems down the road. So like the only logical way forward is to, like you said, to learn about it and to really understand what's going on. And I think there's a freedom there.
Mary: It's easier for you as the man to just, let's just make it the white elephant in the room. Let's just not talk about it. But for me as the woman to kind of keep that in and hold that secret, I feel like there's resentment that builds because you don't care enough about me to care about all of me. And much of society has told us that the menstrual cycle isn't that important. So why prioritize it in a relationship? It feels almost natural to not really like talk about it in a relationship.
03:44 - Which person is responsible for bringing this conversation up in a partnership?
Mary: I think the question that we're really getting to is: who's the person who's responsible for bringing this topic up? Because it seems like the responsibility would primarily lie on the woman's shoulder because it's her menstrual cycle. SHE was the one that was born with ovaries and a uterus.
Mary: But I'm trying to put myself in the shoes of someone who isn't a fertility awareness instructor.
Brendan: Right, we're the odd couple when it comes to this topic.
04:17 - The simplest way to take baby steps into a more comfortable conversation around the cycle
Mary: I can at times imagine the man just kind of taking the lead and saying like, hey, look, one day down the road, I would love to just learn a little bit more about what you go through on a monthly basis. And I think that's vague enough to just kind of like, you almost have to use comfortable terminology to just take baby steps into the conversation before you start saying things like menstruation, ovulation, cervical mucus.
Brendan: Right.
Mary: Those are all really big uncomfortable terms that we don't hear in society. So then bringing it into the relationship is...
Brendan: Yeah, and every relationship is gonna be different. We've always been comfortable enough that we can kind of dive into some of this stuff. But even so, so yeah, some of those terms, you're like, okay, after the first, you know, 10 times of hearing cervical mucus, you kind of like get used to it, I guess.
05:14 - Why it’s important to extend this education to girl dads, brothers, teachers, a boss, etc.
Brendan: But like, to add another layer to that, like as a dad with two daughters now.
Mary: Why do you think that's important for girl dads? Or even just like brothers? I think in all aspects of relationships, it's important, even as a teacher, a boss, all men, but especially as like girl dads is what you're saying.
Brendan: Yeah, just, you know, if there's no understanding of what's going on and you don't want to understand what's going on, then...
Mary: It creates shame.
Brendan: Yeah, you know, just give that support and empathy and I just think that's important.
Mary: I taught you about the cycle because I was practicing this class and that class for my certification. So you just got, you got all of the information. You probably didn't need to know as much as I taught you, but you got to hear it. And you probably don't remember half of what I taught you at this point, because that was a couple of years ago. After we got through that, then I learned about cycle syncing and how my energy shifts throughout the cycle.
06:13 - How cycle support ALSO includes understanding the subtle ways a woman’s mood & energy shifts
Mary: THAT is what I really dream for more couples to have in their partnership, to understand that piece. Because I think there's so much focus on helping the woman in the days leading up to the period and even on her period.
Mary: Obviously, because there's such an outward sign of that, there's the emotional experience leading up to the period and even on it. And then the physicality of cramps and things like that, of wanting to eat a lot of food and whatnot. But the time in between periods, when I learned about cycle sinking and my energetic shifts, I think that really brought a whole new layer to our relationship.
Brendan: It did.
06:57 - Some simple ways we practice cycle awareness
Brendan: And if you look at it from an operational standpoint, when you're the guy and you understand the different parts of the cycle, then in terms of, I don't wanna say running your household, but the flow of your day to day and your household's operation, understanding that is so integral because you can plan meals around that. You can plan meetings and outings and different things to meet her where she's at. Like eventually, it may seem like a lot at first, but eventually it'll just kind of start clicking into place where you'll realize that you're doing finance meetings during certain times of the cycle.
Brendan: And you're avoiding certain types of...
Mary: Conversation.
Brendan: Conversation during the luteal phase, which would be leading up to...
Mary: Like the late luteal phase, yeah.
Brendan: And it's just understanding those things and the timing of the cycle at a basic level even can be so beneficial for...
Mary: The synchronicity of us.
Brendan: Yeah, the cohesiveness of your relationship.
Mary: Yeah, I think what I find fascinating is like, at the beginning, I used to have my chart out on like a paper chart on our nightstand.
Brendan: Color coded food chart.
Mary: Yeah, that was really supportive tool at the beginning, like when I was cycle syncing everything. And then you at least kind of had like a gauge and that probably really helped you understand my patterns. But then we started to wean off that and I just started to do it on like in a more natural way than needing to like create all these tools for myself.
Brendan: The more you do it, you'll pick up on the shifts without even realizing it and just knowing where your partner's at and being able to meet them there and create expectations around where they're at instead of just where you're at as the man. That's important for a strong relationship.
Mary: Yeah.
09:08 - The benefits of a man learning about their partner’s experience & cyclical patterns
Mary: I did this post in May and then I got like a ton of response and a couple of women were saying like, even if they didn't have like a regimented charting experience or whatever, their partner just had this intuitive sense. They felt connected and had some basic understanding of what was going on, even if it wasn't being explicitly said.
Mary: But there is an element of like, when you do at least just talk about it, then it removes maybe some of the assumptions that are being made, because we dated and we were engaged for a while, and you were still interacting with those fluctuations, but we didn't have the vocabulary.
Brendan: Still had no idea.
Mary: We had, yeah, we didn't know. And I didn't know either, but once I learned about my cycle, my body, and how it was influencing my mood and my energy levels, that helped me to connect with you deeper and have a more fulfilling relationship.
Brendan: Right.
Brendan: And I was thinking about it earlier, like from a guy's perspective, too. If you know the cycle well… I just feel like you can be more in tune with, obviously, I don't want to say this the wrong way, but like women are emotional creatures, more emotional than men are, right?
Mary: Well, men have the capacity to be more in tune with their emotions.
Brendan: I just mean, like, if you understand the cycle, then you can understand those emotions better. Like, if she's mad at you when she's ovulatory, that's all on you. You did something wrong. But if she's mad at you when she's luteal, there could be another reason.
10:56 - The hidden truth to premenstrual emotions during a relationship conversation
Mary: Actually, no, I'm glad we're talking about this here on the podcast because… NO. So they say in “cycle syncing practices”, to have the important conversations when you're ovulatory. Like you said, if I get upset about something, yeah, there's validity to that.
Mary: But the validity of bringing something up in the premenstrual phase is actually, to me, ten times more important, because what happens there when there's, like, this resentment that's coming out in the premenstrual phase, even if it's not coming out in the way that it could be delivered, and as we grow and develop, we get better at being more mature and healthy in how we express our anger and emotions towards other people.
Mary: That being said, the substance, what's being communicated, is just as valid, sometimes even more valid, in the premenstrual phase, because during the cycle, we have this resilience, women have this resilience to everything that's going on, that life is throwing at us.
Mary: And we're like, okay, yeah, I can handle that. Sure, sure, I'll take care of you. I got this thing, I can handle that. And we're juggling everything, as you are too.
Mary: But there's something about that hormonal fluctuation in the downward hormonal fluctuation, shifting downwards in the premenstrual phase, that it brings to light all those things that we were resilient to in the previous weeks of the cycle that had just kind of been like brushed under the rug, but they were very important to us, but we were just like, oh no, it's all right. I'll take care of you instead of taking care of myself.
Mary: So like the true self comes out in the premenstrual and it's like, actually, this is how I deserve to be treated. But there's a loss of reverence for that voice. And a lot of women are out of touch with how to like appreciate the honesty that comes in the premenstrual phase.
Mary: And because society labels us as crazy and literally just removes all of that validity. So I'm glad we got to talk about that.
Brendan: Yeah, absolutely.
13:05 - Last minute examples of how we practice cycle awareness
Mary: It feels a little unfair to you as the male species to have to learn it. It feels almost like a burden for women, you know, day in and day out, but especially on a monthly basis. But then to almost kind of force you to learn about it.
Brendan: That's not even being forced to learn about it. Like, if you perceive it as a burden, I think it's the male... It's the male responsibility. It's a male obligation to learn that, so that it's not a burden within your household.
Mary: Or even just an act of caring.
Brendan: Yeah. It's like the little things, like knowing when to cook steak or burgers or brownies. And like, just these little things where you cook a burger, put brownies in the oven, and it's really not that big of a thing to do, but that can totally change where she's at.
Mary: Well, and I love too when we're meal planning, and you'll be like, let's have burgers. And I'm like, can we actually wait into that next week because I'm ovulatory now? And you're like, okay, let's have some chicken, because you know that I always prefer to have lighter meals during the ovulatory phase.
Brendan: Chicken during ovulatory.
Mary: Bone broth, you're always making me bone broth.
Brendan: Red meat during the luteal phase, and then you get the rotisserie chicken and make the bone broth at the end of the luteal phase. Throw some sweets in there and you're all set. As a guy, if you're in a committed relationship, it's the loving thing to do.
Mary: It's the loving thing to do.
Brendan: It's mutually beneficial to both parties.
Mary: Well, also for you, I loved the other day when you were like, yeah, today is my luteal day.
Brendan: Oh yeah. If there's any guys listening, and you work a 40 or 50 hour work week, just picture that first day off after that long work week. How you feel on that day? She goes through that minimum seven days a month straight. So you just have to keep that perspective.
15:42 - QUIZ TIME: Let’s ask Brendan questions about the menstrual cycle
Mary: How long does the cycle usually last?
Brendan: Do you want me to do the scientific American answer?
Mary: What's the scientific?
Brendan: 28 days.
Mary: Oh…. NO. Give me a range.
Brendan: Let's go 27 to 35.
Mary: That was pretty good. NICE. It's 24 to 36 days is the average length of a cycle.
Brendan: That's pretty good.
Mary: What's the average length of a period?
Brendan: Three to seven.
Mary: Nice! You pass.
Mary: What's the main hormone in the first half of the cycle from the moment my period is done until ovulation? What's that primary hormone?
Brendan: I mean, what popped into my mind was progesterone, but I feel like that's in the second half. Progesterone's in the second half, right?
Mary: Oh, dagger in the heart.
Brendan: Progesterone's in the second half. So what's in the first half?
Mary: Estrogen.
Brendan: Oh, yeah, there it is.
Mary: I know you pay attention. There's a lot of vocabulary ;)
Brendan: Flashcards. We're going to make an exclusive set of menstrual cycle flashcards.
Mary: That's not a bad idea, actually.
Brendan: If you comment on the podcast, if you would want menstrual cycle flashcards, we will make that happen.
Mary: That'd be fun. That would be really helpful for people. Yeah, I feel like that would make it fun instead of being like, here, listen to this podcast. No one's going to read a book with their partner about it or go to a class about it.
Mary: I think that's all I got for you. Thanks for playing Quiz Time, Quiz Time. I guess we'll have to do this again because we only scratched the surface.
Brendan: Yeah, this could be a regular whiskey hour. Just sip whiskey and talk about the cycle. We can create a clever name for that.
Brendan: Menstrual drams.
Mary: I can't 😂 Well, that's all, folks. Any parting thoughts?
Brendan: Signing off.
Mary: Sayonara. See you later. Bye-bye!
So many powerful emotions reading this. “Resentment builds up because you don’t care enough about me to care all about me” really struck with me. Just a part of the mental load women shoulder knowing their cycle and what it means for them that most men never consider beyond “you’re moody are you pmsing”?